Interview w/ John (Albert Fish) Borowski

by Vaughn Drake

WSC: Thanks for taking the time off work from your new film. I understand it's about a true sadist—one that many people will never have heard about, yet has a fascinating story, and who uttered some great final words moments before his execution: Carl Panzram.

JB: I don’t want to burst your bubble just yet, but let me state that when it comes to serial killers, there are many urban legends such as Albert Fish shorting out the electric chair. Panzram’s story is very inspirational to me as there are many lessons to be learned. In my documentary film, artist Joe Coleman calls Panzram an American hero. Like it or not, Panzram did bring attention to the many abuses and tortures occurring inside U.S. State prisons. Panzram’s D.C. jail guard, Henry Lesser, is just as important as Carl Panzram. Lesser teaches society to react to each other with human compassion and respect, no matter who they are or what they have done. I find that it is easy to stigmatize people rather than attempt to understand them. I hope that my films bring an understanding of why people become serial killers.

WSC: Carl Panzram has an incredible story, yet other than Killer: A Journal of a Murder with James Woods, I know of no other film on him. Killer barely scratched the surface on Panzram's depravity, instead dwelling on more dramatic and inter-personal aspects. Will your story flesh out his depravity and horrors?

JB: I have not seen the film with James Woods as I do not want to taint my vision for my version of Panzram’s story. There are actually two horrors which I will be focusing on in my film, which is tentatively titled “Panzram”. One horrific aspect is the many tortures which Panzram underwent in various U.S. institutions Panzram was incarcerated in. It is Panzram’s belief that because of the abuses he suffered in U.S. state prisons that he learned “might makes right”. Many expert criminologists also share his view. The other horrific aspect is Carl Panzram, the serial killer and the twenty-one murders he confessed to. As with Albert Fish, I am attempting to convey the reasons why Panzram may have become the way he was. Panzram’s entire life was filled with depravity and horror but it was also filled with many enlightening moments and lessons that everyone can potentially learn from.

WSC: I'm sure Panzram will play the festivals for awhile, but can you look way head and see when we can expect to see Panzram on DVD?

JB: A release date for Panzram has not been set yet. My films usually take between three to four years to complete as I must self fund them. In an ideal world, funding would be available and I would have the ability to produce at least one film per year. Large companies that produce documentaries have teams of writers, associate producers, editors, motion graphics people, graphic artists, executive producers, directors, and production assistants. I basically do the job of all of these people when I create my films. So rather than being able to pay associate producers to make calls or pay an editor, I must fill those roles in addition to working and surviving day to day life.

WSC: Are you already looking ahead at another killer from mans past for your next subject? Maybe Teet Haerm, Richard Chase, Fred and Rosemary West, Gary Heidnik or Leonard Lake and Charles Ng.

JB: Since I will soon complete my American Killer Trilogy, (keep an eye out for the future box set), I may be producing my next film about a serial killer who operated outside of the U.S. Of the two killers I am interested in now, one is from Germany and the other is from the U.K.

WSC: Lets back up a bit. The first film you released was H.H. Holmes: America's First Serial Killer, the story of another forgotten, unknown killer. How he's not better known is beyond me. His story is absolutely unbelievable. If he never existed and Hollywood made a movie about what he did…no one would ever believe it could ever happen. I believe you were the first filmmaker to make a film on H.H. Holmes. Being your first film, why choose a subject that would force you to recreate late 19th century Chicago? Wouldn't it have been easier to tell the story of a modern day killer?

JB: My training and background is feature filmmaking. I entered into the documentary world after college and I combined the two for Holmes. I am still interested in directing features, but the budgets are so high. I would like to make a Dahmer feature because he was the first serial killer I became interested in. The combination of the time period and early crime detection methods is what really interests me about pre-forensics criminology. Imagine what types of killers existed before 1800! Holmes was America’s first documented serial killer, he wrote a book in prison and there were numerous books released about him, which I have released as The Strange Case of Dr. H.H. Holmes: www.strangecase.com. Holmes really ushered in the era of the celebrity serial killer which hit its peak with Gacy and Bundy in the late 70’s.

WSC: After your success with H.H. Holmes, you traveled to late 1920's New York—another period piece—and tackled one of histories true monsters—Albert Fish. Although he's primarily known for the murder of young Grace Budd, he was so much more: multiple murderer, rapist, sadomasochist, house painter and cannibal gourmet. Once again, a subject no one has really ever tackled on film before. Ed Gein and Jack the Ripper are household names, yet outside serial killer fanatics, no one knows Albert Fish. Is it all politics that decides who's famous?

JB: Mass media outlets unfortunately determine what will become popular, even serial killers. Ed Gein may have been completely forgotten if it wasn’t for Psycho and Texas Chainsaw Massacre stating their stories were based on Gein’s true story. Again, the celebrity murderers and serial killers really began with extensive television coverage of the Manson murders in the late 1960’s. Before radio and television, if people did not want to hear about killers in their midst’s, all they had to do was not buy books about the subject. When color television became the norm in American households, people could not ignore the Manson murders because the news was playing on every channel.

WSC: If Fish was sane, what hope do other killers have of being declared insane?

JB: Society has always had a taste for vengeance. Fish’s case is the quintessential example of how the court views insanity. On one hand it may seem that he is insane due to his numerous paraphilias, but on the other hand, it was true that he did plan and coerce the Budd family into letting him take their daughter, Grace Budd with him to a fake birthday party. Once cases such as Fish’s and Dahmer’s hit the courtroom, people are so aghast at their actions that they immediately want them executed or sent to prison, rather than a psychiatric hospital, which is where they belong. Gein was sent to a mental health hospital where he died in 1984. I attempted to interview Bellevue Hospital, which released Fish, but they never returned my calls.

WSC: "In sin he found salvation" is a fantastic tagline. Is that something you created, or was it from old public domain manuscripts?

JB: I create the taglines for my films as well as the poster and DVD artwork. I have a genuine flair for marketing and merchandising films based on a lifetime of attending and studying films. Initially, I was going to tagline the film: “God’s Dark Messenger”, which is from the Mel Heimer book on Fish, Cannibal.

WSC: Are you making a living out of your documentaries, or do you have a second job on the side?

JB: I produce my own films and freelance as film editor, DVD authoring, book publisher and website designer. I also work various other jobs as a contractor. Currently, the two issues that are affecting me as an 100% indie filmmaker are downloading and the lack of funding. Downloading films really hurts the little guys like me more than it does the big guys. On one hand I am pleased that there are so many people interested in my work that there are a tremendous number of downloads and uploads of my films. The downside to that is I do not see a penny from the files of my films that are shared on the internet. The other bad part is there is no funding available for films such as mine. I have searched high and low and have not been able to find funding. That is why it takes me 3-4 years to complete the films on my own. The dark subject matter and killer biographies may be the reason no one is interested in funding my films. Everyone who I have talked to in the industry tells me the same thing: “Come back when it is completed.” This really does me no good when I am in production on a film. I always have distribution lined up, so that is not the issue. The U.S. has cut so much funding to artists, it is embarrassing to this country. If you are an artist in France, you receive a monthly stipend to survive on. In the past, artists were revered, now they are shunned and are objects of ridicule by the masses. So visit my site and support 100% independent film!

Wildside Cinema and Vaughn Drake would like to thank John Borowski for taking time out of his busy schedule to conduct this interview. To find out more about John Borowski and his films, please go to http://www.johnborowski.com
 

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